The End Times

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The End Times

Post by Farseer Amathar on 17/6/2016, 20:27

Though it may be heartbreaking to think about, there is a chance (not a guarantee) that GW still fumble 40k into the End-Times in order to reset the setting. While this is controversial (and mostly unwanted from my view), in light of this possibility, what do we actually know is supposed to happen at the End Times? What do the various factions think? I'm sure the Necron scoff at the idea of 'End times' as they will just go back to sleep. The Tyranid may be the end times made manifest, but they certainly don't realize anything beyond, "I'm hungry, I'm going to eat that planet." If the End Times are truly upon us, then the Tau showed up late to the party, around last-call; and have no plans for this, right? We know the Primarchs are rumored to return to fight one last battle against Chaos. We know that the Eldar will all die out and Ynnead will be born. But what else do we know?
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Re: The End Times

Post by Ristiald on 17/6/2016, 21:16

Actually, it's not all so certain as you paint it.

Obviously, there are some Primarch revolutions around. Some of which are already well known, like: Roboute Guilliman rumored healing, and artefacts of Vulkan being slowly gathered. Some are known but fresh, like the return of Space Wolves 13th great company. And there are some still unresolved, and those are the ones I want to mention.
  1. The return of Space Wolves 13th Great Company. Battle Zone Fenris scenario gives us those Wulfen marines. But it is only lightly marked and often skimmed when spoken about, that they were Leman Russ retinue when he ventured into the Eye of Terror to find the cure to Emperors condition. So actually their return mark the return of the Primarch himself (or at the very least the information about his whereabouts).
    At the same time, the Rock, with Lion El'Johnson slumbering in its deepest catacombs is hovering over Space Wolves homeworld bobing them to hell and back again.
    Two primarchs at the same time, and at the same place?
  2. Trazyns personal collection. There's a giant locked in stasis, and there's an equally giantic Imperial armour beside it. This might be a primarch (or might be something else entirely), and if it is, he must be sprung from captivity.
  3. Rogal Dorns hand. He's supposedly dead. But then a hand is not a vital part to assure it. Where's the body matching the hand? Is it laying somewhere, forgotten and decayed, lost in time, space and memory? Is it the one in Trazyns collection? Is it traversing the galaxy somewhere, kicking butts and being awesome?


Other intersting curiosities happen in the Imperium as well
  1. Who is Cypher and what's his plan?
  2. What is the Legion o the Damned, and will it fight in the End Times?
  3. What lies in the vault of Deathwatch in the Jericho Reach?


And this doesn't stop in the Empire.
SIlent King Szarekh is actually waking up the Necrons and makes them ready for next step.
Harlequins are dancing The Final Act that might destroy Slaa-neth instead of giving in.
Abaddon has Blackstone Fortresses that allow him to actually destroy Terra if he wishes (and gets a chance)... or be destroyed by them, since three still remain.

Those are bviously a lot of questions, and little in the way of answers, but it paints a pretty good picture of what we're facing in the "End Times" scenario.
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Re: The End Times

Post by Farseer Amathar on 17/6/2016, 21:52

Wait? So you're telling me that Cegorach knew the future well enough to bind this book until these events passed? And all Morai-Heg got in return for telling him the future (because clearly the writers forgot that it was Morai-Heg who knows fate, though maybe Liliath can dream of it) was, as a joke: a thorned rose? How did she get tricked into that?
*looks over his shoulder in sorrow* we have lost so many of our stories since The Fall...

There was also something about a fast-track to Ynnead I read somewhere, though that was several months ago and thus is kind of foggy in my mind. Know anything about it?

Just a thought: Trazyn's "primarch" is Vulkan. There never was much of an explanation on how he disappeared (that I'm aware of, other than he went missing at the drop site massacre, but we know he was around afterwards), while Rogal Dorn was lost on an ship-board assault on a Chaos warship. Being so Chaos infused, it's possible he was taken captive or somehow lost in the warp - such as many of his brothers.

What about the Chaos Primarchs? Do they have any plans? I figure Fulgrim is "busy" with some daemonettes and can't be bothered. But surely Angron gets stuff done. Or is that only if the name of the planet is sufficiently awesome enough to? Isn't Magnus the Red secretly rebelling after having recently learned of Tzeentch's trickery during the Horus Heresy? Or was that quickly brushed under the rug?
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Re: The End Times

Post by Farseer Amathar on 17/6/2016, 22:07

Right!  Forgot to add on!  Cypher is - at least according to the traditions of The Order that helped found the traditions of the Dark Angels - a ceremonial role taken up by their Master of Traditions.  Upon taking up this position, Cypher is forbidden from being referenced by his former name and is now known to all just as Lord Cypher or just Cypher.  Now honestly I'm re-reading Descent of Angels right now in preparation for starting Fallen Angels, so hopefully it'll give me some insight into who was Lord Cypher at the Fall of the Dark Angels.

Because I'm an arrogant space-elf, I like to make my predictions as a game just to see how well they pan out.  My first thought was that Cypher might be Luther, because that would be interesting, but Luther is kept in a Cell beneath the Rock (maybe in stasis?) supposedly awaiting for the Lion to awake and forgive him.  Cypher might be seen as the 'defacto' leader of the Fallen, many who claim to remain loyal to the Emperor, but were deceived by the tainted Luther, and most likely many Fallen Angels maintain a strong since of tradition.  Perhaps when Cypher meets the Emperor, Big E will somehow reforge the Lion's Sword, which will (somehow) unite the Dark Angels and Fallen, allowing the Lion to wake, forgive Luthor and ride out into battle against Chaos alongside his friend for one final battle.  But once again, this is all just a prediction and should be seen as bad fan-fiction at best.
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Re: The End Times

Post by Ristiald on 17/6/2016, 22:15

Fulgrim might be busy, but I hope he'll find time to finish what he started with Roboute.
Angron got his butt kicked some time ago, but it was half a millenium ago, so he'll probably show up.
Mortarion got his as well, but it was more recent, so he might still not be coming.
Magnus is a Daemon Prince of the God of Lies, so they are pretty much always scheming against each other. It is really hard to predict where this present scheme will take him.
Perturabo is unlikely to pass on occasion to finally crack open the only fortress that was ever denied to him and wreak havoc on the Imperial Fists.
Lorgar will probably be dragged into everything 'cause he's to weak to resist.

And then there are two curiosities to consider.
Alpharius Omegon that's so slick we don't even know if they're still alive, muchless what's their plan and who's side he'll take when it comes to final battle.
And Lion whos allegiance was always questionable, despite what Dark Angels choose to believe (and enforce).

Fast track to Ynnead? I can't recall anything of that matter, sorry.

So, yeah. Cegorach has the last jest planned and ready to be played, but certain circumstances must have been met. Luckily, they have been, and the last dance has begun. Given how hazy it is, it will surely be glorious, and whether succesful or not, just this glory is enough to actually enact it. Very Happy

Also, yeah, sorry, this is pretty bad prediction, since Luther is chained in the Rock in some chamber next to Lions and is screaming nonsense acting as an oracle.
Cypher on the other hand has been known to fight against Fallen as well as by their side... It's just as unclear as it gets.
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Re: The End Times

Post by Farseer Amathar on 17/6/2016, 22:39

But... how?  How is he alive that long?  He's just a gene-enhanced human!  Whatever, I threw in the stasis thing, just to ensure he'd be alive in the end.  I stick behind everything else I said.  

Remember when I said I don't like the Dark Angels?  Well I had to learn a thing or two before casting so heavy a judgement against them.  So spoilers for Descent of Angels, and maybe a few others I've read a synopsis for.

Spoiler:

So the interesting thing I've noticed as I began re-reading Descent of Angels, it was written from the perspective of a boy who would eventually become a Fallen Angel. Which is awesome, because you think the book is setting up the protagonist's cousin to be a Fallen Angel. The two always compete to push each-other on. Yet our protagonist always lauds his cousin's victories, while his cousin is secretly bitter when our protagonist wins.  This is setting up a betrayal and mistrust through distancing each-other, not any out-right betrayal of one-another. Leaving room for interpretation that both sides are 'good.' While much of the book is still hazy in my mind, because it's been a while (thus why I'm re-reading it), it came off glowing of both the Emperor and The Lion.  The other thing to remember, (often times: much to my dismay) is that the Emperor is Jesus.  Everybody loves Jesus and feels sorrow at betraying him, because no story can ever portray Jesus in a negative light (thus my often cruel depictions of Big E).  Even in the end of their battle on Caliban, Luther begged for forgiveness and saw the light, that coming to terms with it all shattering his mind.  But the thing is, Jesus heals (sometimes even heals machines).

As far as I understand the Fallen, some of them did turn to Chaos, as apparently there were chaos-cults on Caliban in the form of some Knightly Orders. Some of those, among the Fallen, were leaning this way, but many of the Fallen were just duped. Fooled by Luther's (already impressive) chaos-boosted oratory or simply had their memories scrambled during the warp-storm. Essentially it's 50/50. However, if I remember my Lexicanum correctly, whenever Cypher appears the resulting battles usually draw notice to an even greater threat yet to be discovered by the Imperium, thus strengthening the Imperium against a foe. He essentially works as a renegade for the Imperium.

I've no doubt that "with the power of the Emperor's forgiveness" Luthor's mind will be healed and many of 'still loyal' Fallen Angels will be folded back into the Dark Angels for one epic, Lord of the Rings-inspired Charge.  And I'll be annoyed with it all the way for employing those same, tired, over-used tropes.

Alpharius Omegon is just a bundle of mysteries. I suspect they remain loyal and at least one of them is alive. With the prophecy given to them by the Cabal having essentially become true, do they stick with the reasons they seemed to join the Horus Heresy for?
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Re: The End Times

Post by Ristiald on 17/6/2016, 22:52

Well, as I said, Lions allegiance was always hazy, so it's really tough to say where will DAs stand in such conflict.

And we really don't know squat about Alpha Legion grounds on anything at this point.
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Re: The End Times

Post by Farseer Amathar on 17/6/2016, 23:01

I'm still looking for that thing I read about Ynnead. If I remember correctly, there was something about being able to wake Ynnead up early, without all Eldar needing to die, in order to fight Slaanesh.
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Re: The End Times

Post by Farseer Amathar on 17/6/2016, 23:07

Uh... interesting note. Old 6th Ed. Eldar Codex: 928.m41 Phoenix Lords Arhra and Karandras clashed in the webway. Wonder how Drazar feels about this? More importantly: Arhra is still around.
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Re: The End Times

Post by Ristiald on 17/6/2016, 23:09

They are more or less all still around. It's extremelly hard to kill a Phoenix Lord, and even if you do, they just get right back as some other soul is transferred into them. Really, you can only put them down for some time, untill they are reclaimed.
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Re: The End Times

Post by Farseer Amathar on 17/6/2016, 23:14

But... Arhra. The Phoenix Lord who burned with the Dark Light of Chaos. Supposedly put down by his own Incubai who consumed his soul, rather than see him suffer from Chaos. He's the one that supposed to be dead. Thus why Karandaras took over at all... I'd be less shocked if the Phoenix Lord of the Shining Spears showed back up and took his weapon from whatever shrine he left it in.
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Re: The End Times

Post by Farseer Amathar on 17/6/2016, 23:20

Going through my old Codex, I came across the fact that the Phoenix Lords are supposedly appearing with more frequency, leading many to whisper that the Rhana Dandra - the End times for the Eldar may be nearing. This is (apparently) backed up by many of the proclamations of the Farseers, including the great Kysaduras the Anchorite (with the aid of Eldrad Ulthran) who states that the end times are upon us Eldar's only hope lies with Ynnead, as of 991.m41.
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Re: The End Times

Post by Ristiald on 17/6/2016, 23:22

Well, Drastanta's not considered dead, but still, he might be laying somewhere waiting for revival.

Everything points to End Times and Rahna Dandra, so it wouldn't suprise me. Hell, you made a thread about it for the same reason. Wink
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Re: The End Times

Post by Farseer Amathar on 17/6/2016, 23:27

Wanted to place to gather everything that we know, see where all of the pieces are set make sure I wasn't missing anything. And because some of our users seem to favor chaos in this situation, perhaps not everybody on this forum is aware of where the pieces are falling.

So are the Tyranid just nothing but back-ground noise in this entire event? Clearly the Necron are waking up and plotting to do something. What about the Tau? Are they just ignorant of what's going on? Surely Puretide must have some idea?
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Re: The End Times

Post by Ristiald on 17/6/2016, 23:33

I wouldn't call Nids "background noise", but more of a deadline clock. I see it as- either one of the factions in the galaxy wins, or everyone looses.
IMO Orks are more of a background noise than anything else at this moment. They just rampage around doing their usuall monkey bussiness, and nothing really comes out of that.

Tau are a different problem entirely. On one hand they have Etherals and Puretide, pretty much Horus Heresy redoux in the making. On the other, they know so little of the galaxy and what's at stake. I don't even know where to begin thinking about what they might bring to the table.
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Re: The End Times

Post by Farseer Amathar on 17/6/2016, 23:42

It's only the Horus Heresy in that there's an Imperium Secundus? From what I've read, while Puretide has no desire to die, he has no desire to work against the Ethereals either. In fact, he's shown up and aided the Tau Empire against at least Orks, on at least one occasion. Horus had no interest in helping the Imperium after he split from it. The difference here is Puretide, in some regard, recognizes his own 'corruption.' Having witnessed Chaos (or perhaps a tear in the warp), he's gleaned some information of the dangerous entities beyond the veil, but also fears that the knowledge he has makes him dangerous to Tau Society as a whole. While he has no love against the Ethereals, he views the Ethereals as the Lesser of two Evils, in face of what Puretide now knows. Thus Puretide chosen exile for himself and his warriors. Not to fight against his former Empire.
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Re: The End Times

Post by Moonreaper666 on 17/6/2016, 23:56

13th Black Crusade succeeds in taking over Cadia and much of Segmentum North/Obscurus

Legion of Damned sacrifice themselves to banish Belakor

Warsmith Shontu escapes AGAIN, but he manages to blow up the Phalanx

Inwit is invaded by Warsmith Honsou, killing many Imperial Fists. Planet conquered by Chaos

Chaos Fallen lead by Fallen Daemon Prince (forgot his name) invades the Rock

Void Dragon wakes up and wrecks shit on Mars!

Russ has been dead all along. Magnus tortured him for several centuries until he died (Stupid of him to chase the Thousand Sons into the Eye of Terror

White Scars, Ultramarines and Imperial Navy engage Red Corsairs. Chogoris is blown to pieces.

One Ultramarine Company defects to Chaos, Guilliman wakes up and kills them

Guilliman and Khan sacrificed themselves to Banish Fulgrim

Men of Iron and Castigator Titans appears within the Black Legion's ranks

Dark Eldar and Necrons ally with Imperium. Imperium 'recruits' the Orks.

Khaine is revived.

Magnus mends his relationship with Ahriman. The United Thousand Sons and Traitor Blood Ravens strom the Black Library

Konrad Curze is revived. Lorgar personally invades Maccragge! Ultramarines and Successors fight against the Urizen!

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Re: The End Times

Post by Farseer Amathar on 17/6/2016, 23:58

Um... neat ideas... but I'm looking for more canon references. Do you have sources for any of these?
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Re: The End Times

Post by Lucarus on 18/6/2016, 00:15

I'm reading that...
All kinds of wrong...
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Re: The End Times

Post by Farseer Amathar on 18/6/2016, 00:45

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind some speculations in my lore questions (as I've given a few myself), but I want to see you back it up with established lore to tell me why you think that your speculation will be true. Then, months from now when the new material comes out, I'll come back to this thread and see who was right and who was wrong and what did GW ignore with their new material.
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Re: The End Times

Post by Lucarus on 18/6/2016, 00:47

That's not what I ment.

It's just he didn't cite any evidence....
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Re: The End Times

Post by Farseer Amathar on 18/6/2016, 00:52

I understand. However, I do not wish to discourage our new friend. Especially as I've been rather harsh on some of his Fan-Fiction pages. I only seek to ask for more information while re-affirming that he isn't doing anything over-all wrong.
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Re: The End Times

Post by Lucarus on 18/6/2016, 01:24

Your right, I'll try to keep that in mind in the future.

Sorry Moonreaper666, I'm just a brash person.
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Re: The End Times

Post by Moonreaper666 on 18/6/2016, 04:45

Well Fulgrim did put Guilliman in a coma. If Guilliman ever returned Fulgrim just returns to Ultramar to do all KINDS of freaky shit at him!

Its actually better if somebody just unplug Gulliman's life support! (Text-to-Speech reference!)



"Do you remember what you said to me, brother? Do you remember what you said to me as we fought before the Pyramid of Photep? Do you remember the words you used? I do. As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother."
-Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ, during the Battle of the Fang, M32[5] (Battle of the Fang Novel, Lexicanum)

It is stated in A Thousand Sons (Novel) that Magnus knows where Russ is. I can be sure its not a paradise where

At the end of the Invasion of Ultramar several things happened:
-One of the Ultramarines Captains resents his Chapter Master for causing half of his men to die for a lie
-Warsmith Honsou wants to return to his homeworld to meet with Perturabo himself

There is no way GW would allow Chaos to lose the 13th Black Crusade. It would anger their fanbase too much to be worth it.

Belakor is powerful enough that he could actually fight the Legion of Damned. These Ghost Astartes couldn't be harmed by Hesparax herself! (And she easily slaughters Astartes like butter!)

The Fallen Marbas has reached Daemonhood. So basically the quest of the Dark Angels to make the Fallen repent is absolute stupid and wasteful! (How are you going to make a Daemon Prince repent!?!) -Dataslate: Cypher - Lord of the Fallen pg. 19

It is implied that Chaos is responsible for causing the Men of Iron to revolt and initiating the Age of Strife

In one of the Grey Knight books, a Castigator Titan corrupted by Chaos fights the Loyalists

A small scale civil war happens between the Death Watch and Grey Knights (Because the Death Watch have one of the Ward Boys' precious Artifacts!)

Several Astartes from the following Chapters defect to Chaos:
-Black Dragoons (Mutants treated like shit by the Imperium)
-Blood Ravens (Offshoots of the Thousand Sons)
-Red Scorpions (Offshoots of the Emperor's Children)

Lorgar hates Ultramarines as much as he hates other religions and athiest. If he shows up in End Times/13th Black Crusade, he is going to head start for Ultramar First

Keep in mind that only Khornate Daemonkin has been released, once the 3 other Codex Supplements are released:
-Chaos gets more insanely OP Chaos Marines!
-They get several Warbands (8k to over 22k Extra Chaos Space Marines)

Could you imagine the faces of the Adeptus Mechanicus when they find out that they have been worshiping the wrong God all this time!?!


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Re: The End Times

Post by Lucarus on 18/6/2016, 04:49

http://1d4chan.org/images/thumb/c/ca/TechPriest.png/300px-TechPriest.png ?
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