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Re: Random stuff

Post by Ristiald on 28/6/2016, 00:22

The problem with both Michael Bay and JJ Abrams is that they suck at writing scrips. Sure, those movies are awesome when it comes to music, camera works, acting, and a lot of weird quirks, but the story binding all of it together is crap.
So unfortunately, speaking for myself here, I would go on them as hard if they were writing fanfics on the web. Because books, comics, fanfics, etc. don't have this audiovisual components that make the movies passable, and rely very heavily on storytelling.
Really, I see the movies of those two directors, as overpriced fan creations. When I look at them like that I can forgive that they don't fully know the lore of 'verse they're filming, or that they steal and repurpose things that offical cannon creators released. But if this IS official cannon they make and so shamefully steal and repurpose from previous crafts, or ignore the lore and the theme... it's unforgivable. It's beyond reproach. They should be thrown out to the angry mob of fans.
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Re: Random stuff

Post by Farseer Amathar on 28/6/2016, 07:50

The funny thing is, I think I've heard that JJ Abrams is a sci-fi fan, and a fan of both Star Wars and Star Trek.  Though he might have just been saying that because he's been tapped to work on them.  From all the reviews and synopsis I looked into, the presence of Kahn in the second Star Trek Reboot film doesn't bother me.  Much as you stated - it's the misuse of Kahn that bothers me (and the super-blood I read about... I mean... really?!).  But in that case, he doing a reboot, so I expect old things to show up.  But keep the themes in tact.  Hell, I'd love to watch a re-make of the episode of The Original Series (TOS) where Kirk fights a Gorn.  In the original it was poorly done (what with having a 1960's TV Budget) but had some cool ideas behind it.  That's why I'm a Trekkie at all.  Most of us know how badly done Star Trek is done - but the lore and the themes behind it, that's what makes us fans.  When you toss all of that out in favor of summer-blockbuster popcorn-muncher action-movies... then I could easily stay home and just watch the TV Shows or old Movies and be far more entertained.  If I want my dumb action movie, I'll re-watch Avengers (which is still a fun character-piece and is somehow smarter while still being mostly about dumb action).

I'm also apparently slightly more fortunate, I can have my Star Trek MMORPG or any other video game that takes place in the main universe and keeps all of the stuff from the old films and TV Show (even that unfortunate Star Trek 10 which even I have trouble arguing is worth anything).

Ultimately I think that is part of the reason for the hate, is that he's in control of the official cannon.  I also think part of the problem is... well... we're not easily-impressed about much of this stuff.  And people like us are far outnumbered by people who are easily impressed.  Even though I often joke that we (nerds) won, all of the highest grossing movies are playing to us, the truth is most of the weirder stuff that us (nerds) love will always be relegated to a passing references.  Story lines will be dumbed down and condensed or thrown out.  Characters misused, with rich tapestries of backstory being adapted into screaming idiots (looking at you Ronan the Accuser).

Just for fun, I'm going to hand you a couple of short clips from some of my favorite scenes from Star Trek.  Lost in all of the goofy weirdness and sciency-exploring are the aesops on human nature.  Sadly, all of the short scenes I can find were from Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, which gets doubly weird when you go forward about twenty years from the making of the show and find yourself in a 'never-ending war on terror.'


So, maybe you are the right person to ask this.  Why are the prequels better than Episode 7?  I still have a hard time making it through Episode 2.  Considering my post, feel free to respond with videos to support your arguments.
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Re: Random stuff

Post by Ristiald on 28/6/2016, 12:11

No need for videos to explain.
Prequels were bad, true. But they expanded on the story in meaningful way.
Episode 7 is only everything w already had recycled and badly stitched together. My Frankensteins monster analogy was deliberate.
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Re: Random stuff

Post by Farseer Amathar on 28/6/2016, 20:46

Ah. A fairly short and strait-forward answer. I wasn't doubting the problems with Episode 7, just wondering what was so redeemable about the prequels. I haven't been able to encounter many arguments that favor the prequels over the Ep7. Truth be told, I only really have a problem with Ep2, as I find the love story long and boring and not-very-well done and I usually tune out or walk away to go make lunch or something during the middle of the movie. By the time I get back, I've missed a big chunk.
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Re: Random stuff

Post by Ristiald on 28/6/2016, 23:46

It's not really redeeming prequels, just that Ep. 7 is worse even than those. It's just the bottom has been dug way deeper than it was before setting a new low and a new perspective to see through.
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Re: Random stuff

Post by Farseer Amathar on 30/6/2016, 01:06

Eh, I think we've talked this topic to death. I have no more questions. Though our discussion did make me want to go back and re-watch Star Trek: Deep Space 9. Forgot the kick to the feelings that the first episode was.
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Re: Random stuff

Post by Ristiald on 30/6/2016, 11:06

I think I can find something new to talk about. Very Happy
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Re: Random stuff

Post by Ristiald on 30/6/2016, 21:51

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Re: Random stuff

Post by Ristiald on 30/6/2016, 22:48

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Re: Random stuff

Post by Ristiald on 30/6/2016, 23:24

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Re: Random stuff

Post by Ristiald on 1/7/2016, 12:46

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Re: Random stuff

Post by Farseer Amathar on 2/7/2016, 22:24

Looking up things for the story I'm working on.  Stumbled across this.  Was so surprised that I have to share it, even though I can't prove it (I'm only missing the link between 'Laserburn' and 'Laser Squad' besides the name). Somehow, I always knew that X-Com and 40k were spiritual cousins... now I find out they're actual (distant) cousins.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Warhammer_40,000#Rogue_Trader_.281987.29 wrote:A few elements of the setting (bolters, Dreadnought armor) can be seen in a set of wargaming rules called Laserburn written by Bryan Ansell and produced by Tabletop Games in 1980. The influence of these can also be seen in the prototype Necromunda game mechanics. Laserburn was turned into the computer game Laser Squad that subsequently evolved into the X-COM computer games.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laserburn wrote:Some elements of the Laserburn rules, such as power and dreadnought armour, bolt guns and jet cycles were carried forward and appear in Warhammer 40,000 by Games Workshop who Ansell worked for in the late 80s onwards.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_Squad wrote:Laser Squad is a turn-based tactics video game [...]  The legacy of the game can be seen in other titles like the X-COM series, especially the acclaimed UFO: Enemy Unknown which was also created by Julian Gollop and was initially conceived as a sequel to Laser Squad.

That last page also includes this link to a free, flash-port of the original Laser Squad.  Um... enjoy?
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Re: Random stuff

Post by Ristiald on 3/7/2016, 09:11

Yeah? That's quite a find, but study this. Very Happy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutant_Chronicles
The Dark Symmetry prevents computers, "thinking engines", and other electronic devices from functioning reliably, if at all, and initially caused complete chaos, and then a forced adaptation of the technology used by mankind. The Dark Symmetry also begins to spread plague, lies, illusions and war on the human population through Dark Apostles known as Demnogonis, Semai, Muawihje, Algeroth and Ilian, The Dark Mistress and most powerful wielder of The Dark Symmetry. Thus the first Corporate wars began. Only through the Brotherhood and its first Cardinal, Nathaniel Durand were the corporations pulled under one banner, driving the Dark Legion and Dark Symmetry back to the void where it came from.
http://www.modiphius.com/mutant-chronicles.html
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Re: Random stuff

Post by Farseer Amathar on 3/7/2016, 21:16

So, reading the wikipedia history on Mutant Chronicles and... well, I love how both England and the USA aren't European. It's a popular myth over here, as well. And while we physically are in a different Continent, culturally speaking, America is still pretty European. Though also far more religious, zealously right-wing and in love with guns than most of Europe. (That last one I only kind of get, as I love violent video games, but abhor violence in real life - thus have no need or desire to even be around real guns).

Okay, that reminds me! I got one! Since you seemed to get my Shadowrun Reference earlier, I've been hearing rumors that the latest international trade deal includes an international-arbitration law... which pretty much amounts to the freakin' Corporate Court from Shadowrun! Does anybody else get creeped-out every time you see something from a distopian sci-fi setting show up in real life?
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Re: Random stuff

Post by Ristiald on 3/7/2016, 23:13

I happen to have read Orwell, so I actually see dystopian future around me, but I have missed the Corporate Court refferece. Sadly my Shadowrun story is short and I don't know the refference you made. Please elaborate.
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Re: Random stuff

Post by Farseer Amathar on 4/7/2016, 16:29

Um... shoot, it'd be easier to just pass you the history as presented in a two-edition outdated rulebook (that I still have).  Suffice to say that when you reach AAA Mega-Corporation and get to be one of the big 8/ 10/ 12 (depending on the Edition), you get access to the Corporate Court in the Zurich-Orbital Gemeinschaft Bank, meaning you get a represenative actually set on the council.  This Corporate Council/ Court passes laws and judgements against and between the various top-tier Corporations.  And since (in Shadowrun) Corporations have Nationality (their own citizens) and Extra-territoriality (like a modern embassy) they're pretty much on par with countries when it comes to various international-rulings and pretty much only answer to the Corporate Court.

Shadowrun 3rd Edition Timeline
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Re: Random stuff

Post by Ristiald on 4/7/2016, 17:28

Ok, that accounts for the Corporate Court.
What's with this latest international trade deal includes an international-arbitration law then?
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Re: Random stuff

Post by Ristiald on 4/7/2016, 20:23

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Re: Random stuff

Post by Farseer Amathar on 4/7/2016, 23:44

First of all, my apologies for getting political. It's part of the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) currently being pushed for by my own country. And since everything on Earth revolves around the USA (you cannot tell me otherwise, it's our Independence Day today - for anybody stumbling across this, all this fervent-nationalism is meant to be read as a joke), it automatically is the most important thing in the world everybody should know about! In a more serious contest, here's a simple Washington Post Article about the TPP's International Arbitration Clause. If it passes, I expect to start seeing it everywhere in about ten years. But that might just be me, being paranoid.
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Re: Random stuff

Post by Ristiald on 5/7/2016, 00:09

Oh, that explains. Very Happy
Yes, this is definetly a step towards Cyberpunk, Shadowrun or Mutant Chronicles dystopias. Very Happy
Nice find Amathar. Smile
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Re: Random stuff

Post by Ristiald on 5/7/2016, 23:02

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Re: Random stuff

Post by Farseer Amathar on 5/7/2016, 23:27

You can thank me... but I don't feel very happy that I found that out... I feel more creeped-out that another 'don't do this - this is bad' thing from a sci-fi is showing up in real life. Now if you don't mind, I'm going to go put on my burlap clothing and hold signs that say 'repent for the end is nigh,' while standing on a highway over-pass.
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Re: Random stuff

Post by Ristiald on 6/7/2016, 00:00

I think you have a flawed reasoning.
You should be happy that you found it out, and I should be thanking you for bringing it to my attention.
What you should not be happy about is that your goverment is doing something like this at all.
There's a big difference here. Very Happy
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Re: Random stuff

Post by Farseer Amathar on 6/7/2016, 00:18

Eh, it's mostly lamenting the fact that there is little I can do to stop it. I understand the whole vote and election thing (the question is, do you understand the Electoral College? Because, if you do, that puts you ahead of most Americans - and it's part of our Presidential Elections)... but... well, let's just say we're not far enough removed from the recent rounds of elections for me to not be bitter about the results. Seriously - we Americans have ended up with the two most hated candidates (I think) ever. The main reason most people have given for voting for one (in early or recent polls) is that they hate the other even more. It hearkens back to the old saying of 'divide and conquer.' But I'm just complaining about nothing major here, America isn't the only nation so discontent with the last stretch as to act in crazy ways and elect the worst possible people. (Looking at you UK and the Philippines - as just two quick examples)
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Re: Random stuff

Post by Ristiald on 6/7/2016, 00:51

Well, I'm not familiar with Electoral College, since I'm no american, and no one ever spoke to me about it, muchless explain it. Razz
As to choosing the worst- it's not really about being the best or the worst candidate. More like about being the best fit for the audience.
Here, check this, this explains a lot and better than I ever could.
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Re: Random stuff

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